[19:02 UTC]   *** Logging started. ***
[12:03 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone.
[12:03 PM PT]  Bill's Chair: This is Bill's Chair
[12:03 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Hi Andrew
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but welll
[12:03 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Excuse me for being a tiny bit late. I was deep in to working on writing tests for a CPU emulation.
[12:03 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Look, guys, I don'tt have the answers to those questions. Dan asked me to help. He said I needed to talk to Ubit about some specific things. I was told this is where I could find him.
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: the code i shown does create the basic inventory mandatory entries
[12:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: with proper ids etc
[12:03 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: did you show me some code?
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: shown dan that shown you :)
[12:04 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I likely missed it ;)
[12:04 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hiro, for the sake of the meeting log would you repeat the question?
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you do mention it
[12:04 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: He has shown me some things, and I have references to them -- but he said we also need the coded that runs the very first time a user logs in.
[12:04 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: protected XInventoryFolder CreateFolder(U
[12:05 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Andrew, there's isn'tt really a simple question. We're trying to manage some storage issues specifically with OSgrid.
[12:05 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and like you say there, also the StoreFolder for lower slw details
[12:05 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I'd be happy to card the convo to this point for you.
[12:06 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what kind of assets are missing?
[12:07 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hiro, np. The people reading the chat log may be a little lost about whatis being discussed.
[12:07 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: This shirt I'm wearing, for example. I had to recreate it from source materials this morning because the original from 15 years ago would be worn.
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: on that you also list the current contents of a folder entry.. ofc on needs to parse and to our "migration" file :)
[12:07 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Almostt everything in my inventory is like that.
[12:07 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so materials?
[12:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no
[12:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: thing is that as you know osg assets storage did run out of space
[12:08 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I had an issue a period that meshes bought from Kitely went missing despite the entry being present in inventory
[12:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: then it was found that part of it had a huge cluster size
[12:08 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's one way to clean out the garbage in an asset server, starting from scratch with IARs...
[12:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: to a small file was taking a lot of that storage
[12:08 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: typically only meshes that had been rezzed once or more
[12:08 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Oh yes, and the disks physically stopped working. I'm the one that paid several thousand dollars (of OSG Inc's money) to get them forensically recovered in a cleanroom
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so a process was started to rewrite all the assets into a proper clusert size thing..
[12:09 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: ...it was not a complete recovery, at that.
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and that did F**UP BIG TIME
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and lost tons os assets
[12:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: possible still running losing more
[12:10 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: broken disks lose things. Completely outsidee anyone's control.
[12:10 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: No backup? How many TB are we talking about?
[12:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: nahh it was not a broken disk
[12:10 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: The hell it wasn't.
[12:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not evben a disk.. its ceph thing
[12:10 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: my entire OSG inventiory is basically useless with assets dating back to 2008
[12:10 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I'm talking about what happened 15 years ago. Sorry.
[12:10 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: IARs made prior should have been made with the uuids of the assets they had at the time, meaning if you extract the IAR you end up with an assets folder that contains the asset data referenced by the uuid they had when the IAR was made. All you need then is to use that to load the asset back in if you can verify it to be actually broken, copy and replace basically
[12:11 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ohhh  im talking about current
[12:11 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that one that matters now :)
[12:11 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Yeah, my bad :)
[12:11 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: When you load them back in it will probably make a new asset for all of them so only the file deduplication happens, you still might get additional database entries for each of them
[12:11 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so yeah seems by now osg did lost a large amount of assets..
[12:12 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So if you want to ask users for IARs in helping with recovery just extract the asset data out of them, index it and check it against the running dataset, replace where needed
[12:12 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Well, perhaps. But the real thing you need to understand aboutt me: I havent been around in ten years or so. Much less involved. I was asked to help in a very specific way, and that's all I'm trying to do.
[12:12 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and think we are talkinga about a wait to clean up the inventories of thsoe
[12:12 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so they can be easier repaired
[12:12 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Ubit: yes.
[12:12 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: (ru:en)  UBIT: Yes.

[12:12 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: can you spin up a local old OSG region db and recover from there?
[12:13 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: For MOST users, the assets are in the cluster and should be fine once the cluster repair finishes.
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: vincent that php is that one from github PR ?
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: sadly seems the cluster lost tons of assets
[12:13 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Gavin: we're talking about a asset store that is so big it requires a cluster to host it.
[12:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: pff a few TB :p
[12:13 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: If we could have backed it up, we would have.
[12:14 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure, but I am interested in recovering my oldest stuff, the rest I have
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: youtube store is a bit larger :p
[12:14 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Turns out you can't just add assets to a disk forever.
[12:14 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I wrote that a while ago, the pr was Manni I think trying to write an automatic fixer, which is not a good idea given how broken some inventory can be
[12:14 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Opensim arceology
[12:14 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: archeology*
[12:14 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Whatever, we aren't youtube. We had less than a 10k$ bank balance. I suspect we have much less now.
[12:14 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well how can we help more?
[12:15 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in fact current osg  mysql dbs should have the updated sctructure
[12:15 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Ubit: I'm in a bit of an awkward position. Dan knows what he wants, and I have an idea; he told me 'the code that runs (inventory) when a user first logs in'
[12:15 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Unfortunately, I'm the one who was available to attend the meeting.
[12:16 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: (He is at his day $job)
[12:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: What's a mailing list....
[12:16 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: yeah we can get the schema, np
[12:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: irc, email, even discord, Ubit ain't hiding
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well to make the base skeleton is not the hard part
[12:17 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: to scan and convert old ones is
[12:17 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: yeah that code is in opensim, I have it linked in that pastebin
[12:18 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: by the way, if y'all want to look at the pastebin,  https://pastebin.com/HmVaDGS5
[12:18 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: https://pastebin.com/U1yts0s5 php version of that code
[12:19 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that is missing materials
[12:19 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Who uses those, they just laggy /s
[12:20 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: LOL
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oops so is our create ? lol
[12:20 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: actually, that speaks to a bigger, unacknowledged problem.
[12:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( anyway viewers create it )
[12:21 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: What we're up against, and I'm a fine example, is users who have been around so long, that many changes in the way things work have happened; some from opensim, some from osgrid, some from ll, some from various viewer devs -- and our inventories bear the marks of all that.
[12:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: foldertypes are defined on our openmetaverse lib
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: https://bitbucket.org/opensimulator/libopenmetaverse/src/master/OpenMetaverseTypes/Enums.cs
[12:22 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The only thing that I'm aware of changing over time are the foldertypes and that's easily rectified through the database, that doesn't need nuking the inventory
[12:22 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Viewers will complain about bad folder types and the check script uses the same criteria to find those things
[12:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well a problem we have is that many older things have wrong types
[12:23 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: To be as clear as crystal: I did not say we need to clear inventory. Dan told me that we need to clear inventory, and asked me to help code the process, after I was unable to find an old sql script he asked me for.
[12:23 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Only thing that I know has been problematic on the items themselves where textures and snapshots being conflated with each other, but that also happens on the IAR end so that won't fix with reloading them
[12:24 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Ubit: yes, because of those reasons I mentioned too. Sometimes it's bugs, sometimes new features, and from all over the place.
[12:24 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well we also still do not enferce all the rules SL does
[12:24 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: thy are probably the same kind of blobs in the database Vincent, with some associated metadata to distinguish one type from the other.
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: like only root folders have type != -1, if i remember
[12:25 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Ubit: True. Also I know that osgrid does some things 'special' bc osgrid. I dont really know what they are anymore, but I do know that those things continue to have an impact for us, even if they aren't done any more.
[12:25 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so to dig around a viewer inventory check code could help
[12:26 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: indeed
[12:26 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That's what the check script I wrote does essentially flagging the same things the viewer tends to complain about. Page lists ways to rectify most of them
[12:26 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The inventory folder types are listed on the wiki as well
[12:26 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: is that the first one you linked?
[12:26 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Lyr
[12:27 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 waves and smiles
[12:27 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Database:Inventoryfolders
[12:27 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Great to see you *grins*
[12:27 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: wasn't it the My suidcase folder that was handled different on OSG that gave all kinds of issues
[12:27 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: back in the day, when it was first introduced, it caused all manner of trouble
[12:27 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: It might still, Idk
[12:28 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Check_inventory_script
[12:28 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: lol funny, I was the first person besides Diva and Mel to test HG
[12:28 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I was the guinea pig of last resort, as I was the only one around
[12:28 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless the old ones were converted I guess they can cause issue now
[12:28 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Issues beyond what the viewer or the check script finds can exist, but they shouldn't cause any issues directly, at least item types in general are not a problem for the assets themselves
[12:29 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I seem to recall they did things to fix it. But who the hell knows.
[12:29 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Inventory items just reference the asset data effectively and give them their own types, so a snapshot might show as texture, but the data remains the same
[12:29 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The assets have their own types, less than inventory types if I recall since some of the data is effectively the same
[12:29 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: The suitcase thing is an old issue. There were a lot of discussions about it some time ago.
[12:29 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: dang this is the least people I have seen in a dev meeting since itt was held in a treehouse on wright plaza
[12:30 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: So Ub, let me get this straight: The code tha we think Dan is asking for, it's actually in the viewer?
[12:31 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If the complaint was that the viewer tells people their inventory is buggered then yes, that's a viewer thing
[12:31 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It wants to have proper folder types now that's about it
[12:31 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I don't think there is a complaint, per se, as much as between the two of us, Dan and I were trying to cover all the bases.
[12:32 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for my OSG account it barfs that some of the most basic elements of the avatar cannot be found
[12:33 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so you can't even do anything to change it because it doesn't find the necessary lib parts
[12:33 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Inventory folders and items are just a large reference to the assets, they add just a bit of metadata to them, but the tables don't store anything that would be breaking assets in any way. The only known changes that were made to inventory in the sense of changing it were the folder types and an item type for the textures/snapshots. That's all in the last ten or so years. Prior to that we can't really determine what it might have been because git only goes that far back
[12:33 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: that's what mine was doing this morning. NOTHING would load. I had to recreate the entire avatar and all clothing frfom scratch.
[12:33 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[12:33 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Wait, I take that back: My privates work, and my boots.
[12:33 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: hehe
[12:33 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: good to know
[12:33 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: TMI!LMAO
[12:34 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: ;)
[12:34 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some clothing items works, yes
[12:34 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: The opensim library at the bottom of the inventory is supplied by the region directly
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: entries can also be references to other inventory items
[12:34 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Perhaps that is what he's concerned about Vincent
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: or evn folders
[12:34 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( links )
[12:34 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: yup
[12:35 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: A good way of figuring out what Dan is concerned about would be if he emailed over the mailing list the problems he has, that reaches out to everyone that might know a thing or two about it
[12:36 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: *shrugs* Dan does what Dan does; I intend to just pass him this discussion, we'll go from there.
[12:36 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: probably trying to fix things quietly so as not to cause concerns about grid
[12:36 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was about to say Hiro
[12:36 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I would suspect that is a large part of it.
[12:37 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Think that ship has sailed at this point, more transparency would probably be better than fiddling around with things in the background, that just creates rumors
[12:37 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Oh, we aren't about do anything without telling everyone
[12:38 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: We're just trtying to develop a tool, test it, and come with a solution.
[12:38 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Good plan
[12:39 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: even so, If you spend longer than 5 mins sitting in LBSA, you will hear people talking about this problem
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well lost assets will not be a easy fix
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and yes IAR will do a mess,  duplication things etc
[12:39 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( by design it seems )
[12:40 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It is definitely possible to break things if you have a faulty asset and then somehow manage to issue an asset update call writing the bad data back to it, but if that's not enabled or implemented in whatever custom system it uses then eventually things should recover once the asset becomes available again
[12:40 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and ofc iar may not have the assets..
[12:41 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Inventory just keeps a uuid for reference to an asset, so it tries to fetch that. So long as that entry isn't touched it will simply try again eventually
[12:42 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I do know that OSgrid uses an assett deduplicator, or did. I was around when Adam Frisby made it. I could swear it became part of opensim.
[12:42 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: fsassets does that by file data hashing yes
[12:42 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Similar systems exist, like SRAS
[12:43 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Multiple asset entries using the same data on disk
[12:43 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: osg is using a proprietary assets service now
[12:43 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not opensim one
[12:44 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: yeah, something custom from Melanie?
[12:44 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeap
[12:44 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I am sure it does not duplicate assetts. Melanie is far too obsessed with efficiency to do something like that.
[12:45 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: guess it uses same crap as fsassets
[12:45 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: errr same thing...
[12:45 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: lol
[12:46 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that is another thing
[12:46 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: that assets services may also be broken
[12:46 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: with metadata pointing to lost data
[12:47 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( on original fsassets metadata is stored on mysql,  data on disk files )
[12:47 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: yep
[12:48 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Said metadata or specifically the uuid though can be found in IARs at least, so a potential way to restore by replacing the data on disk from those, but first need to actually determine if it is broken due to an update call made with faulty data or if the file is just still waiting to be copied over
[12:48 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Until whatever rewrite is happening is complete no way to know that I would think
[12:49 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Now you're getting beyond simply rebuilding a proper inventory structure for the user. Not that I don't want to address those concerns, but I worry about scoping the tawsk, if you will.
[12:50 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: just a break to check, if there is other issue ?
[12:50 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: nothing new here
[12:50 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Oh yes, please, if there is other concerns, I never meant to hijack the meting like this.
[12:50 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:51 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the only thing I noted is that LL is making a cap for texture size
[12:51 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what size is supported I think (by the viewer)
[12:51 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: brw i just did update our code to add Materials to new inventories :)
[12:51 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, saw that
[12:52 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I'll update the wiki later :)
[12:52 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: 2048?
[12:52 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is probably a good idea not to blast over big textures if the viewer doesn't support it
[12:52 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[12:52 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: np, Hiro. Some topics can take over the meeting now and then.
[12:53 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Important topic
[12:53 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: I thought all viewers supported at least 2048 given that's the max size for dynamic textures
[12:53 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I was about to say hold on everyone for a moment.
[12:53 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no
[12:53 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: We are at less than 10 minutes before the top of the hour. Does anyone have anything for the meeting not related to inventory or assets?
[12:53 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they can receive them but the renderer falls over without proper support
[12:54 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Good to know, Gavin
[12:54 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not really Andrew
[12:54 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well 2 late
[12:54 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: the latest viewers support them but not *all* viewers
[12:54 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: al 0.9.3  allows 2k
[12:54 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, np. I always want to make sure everyone gets a chance to talk.
[12:55 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in fact just sends a flag that only new viewers know about
[12:55 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure
[12:55 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as you know region as no idea of the texture asset loaded
[12:56 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: no new viewers will just upload 2K textures,  because we all know how those are so needed.. cofff cofff cofff
[12:57 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: (so .. )
[12:57 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: some very large objects can benefit with 2048 but its an exception to the rulke
[12:57 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:57 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: 2k textures for every hair strand in you 3 million tris wig
[12:57 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: frames per minute
[12:57 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: people upload 2k for a drinking glass cuz thats what came with the 3D model
[12:57 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I actually do have a question for Andrew about core dev
[12:58 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or a tiny finger ring detail
[12:58 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Why are you the only one here?
[12:58 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: oh unreal ppl now needs 8k textures.. ofc
[12:58 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Are the numbers down?
[12:58 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: number of core devs, I mean
[12:58 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Go ahead, Hiro.
[12:58 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: LOL I already launched, my guy
[12:58 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: We're down a few people today, [perhaps due to the storms across the country
[12:59 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: yes. Ubit and myself are both core devs.
[12:59 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Who are the core devs now?
[12:59 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: ok I knew Ubit made a lot of contributions, but did not know he is formally core
[12:59 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: you are a bit outdated :p
[12:59 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Has been carrying the project the last 5  years
[1:00 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Is Mel still core? How about Hurliman?
[1:00 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: As to formally members of core (but may not be that active with the code), Melanie, Diva, and Misterblue, IIRC.
[1:00 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I am not surprised to hear that actually
[1:00 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: https://openhub.net/p/opensimulator/contributors/summary
[1:00 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Yeah I don't think Diva has been active at anything sincec she kicked us off UC Irvine servers
[1:01 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: press see all
[1:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: She has at least managed the wifi part somewhat on github, that's about it though
[1:01 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: mb is working on the webrtc stuff now
[1:02 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: not all core devs come to this meeting regularly. More are on IRC.
[1:02 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: for now MB is doing that as his own project, not part of core
[1:02 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon might still technically be a member of core but he has been off working on RL stuff for some years now.
[1:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: by the rules, once core dev, always core dev
[1:03 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Damn
[1:03 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: active dev is other story..
[1:04 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Yes. My involvement with the project has mainly been in areas other than the main body of code.
[1:04 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Yeah Nebadon was a source of more problems than solutions.
[1:04 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: He is why I ended up being CEO of OSG for a feww years.
[1:05 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Except for webrtc, there hasn't been much pressing issues here. OS has been pretty stable recently. We often talk about topics individuals have
[1:06 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Listening to Ubit rant about LL latest dumb idea, that's the star of the show really :)
[1:06 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well about osg inventories
[1:07 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: :)
[1:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: as i said main root skeleton is just a tiny part of the issue
[1:07 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: They have some recent dumb ideas
[1:07 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-)
[1:07 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Ubit, by any chance could you summarize the things we need to be cognizant of?
[1:07 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: real iissue is to retrieve all the folders and items,  validating and fixing
[1:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: and doing that without doing a total mess :p
[1:08 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: that sounds like something that would be done after iars have been loaded
[1:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: wel yeah i guess
[1:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: but iars may add a ton of duplication of entries
[1:08 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I think the goal of our erstwhile tool is for it to prepare the user's inventory for an IAR load
[1:08 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( and be sure they do have assets.. )
[1:08 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: They'll get deduplicated on load
[1:09 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: ...provided dedup is still in play, ofc
[1:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: dedup is  irrelevant
[1:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: not even your issue
[1:09 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: RL family related issues have meant I lost interest in working on a lot of projects. I found a couple of new ones that managed to get me interested in working on something. I do need to get back to work on some issues related to some of the add on modules I maintain.
[1:09 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: it's the answer to your concerns about assset duplication
[1:09 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: dedup is lower level on assets servers
[1:10 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: perhaps you refer to a different thing being duplicated as the archive loads.
[1:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: errr oops
[1:10 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: yeah
[1:11 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: When you load an IAR it creates entries in inventoryitems for all the items with a reference to the asset, but it likely also creates a new asset entry simply pointing to the same hashed data, you still have a entry for the inventory item and possibly even the asset if it doesn't find an existing one in the database to reference
[1:11 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: i jumped to assets dedup, bc i was thinking about possible iar assets ( that may not be on files or maybe broken )
[1:11 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Andrew, I find it difficult to pay attention to virtual worlds when the RL is a new dumpster fire around us every day
[1:11 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If your issue is that you have assets that are actually broken then they will have a reference uuid in the assets database, this you can look for in the IARs directly as they will have been written gathering assets by their uuid
[1:11 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Losing a family member puts a major damper on most things.
[1:11 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: yes. I think that concern calls for a different sort of tool: one to preen and clean an exististing inventory store
[1:12 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ideed
[1:12 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 hugs Andrew and Gavin
[1:12 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ahh to make things worse , ppl to have inventery entries ( item and folders) with same name !!
[1:12 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Andrew: Indeed it does. We lost my mom right before I went away; I don't think itt really contributed directly, but it did put me in a certain state of mind.
[1:12 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Yes
[1:12 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: In 5 days my mother will have been gone a year.
[1:12 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 gives Hiro a hug
[1:13 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Start by running the inventory check script over it and fix the folder types, that'll stop viewers complaining about that at least. Restoring assets from IARs you don't need to load them, just extract the assets from them and compare to what you have on disk. If an asset reports broken just replace the data itself, leave the db alone
[1:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ( items called Object does come to mind.. )
[1:13 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so filter of iar load  maybe fun...
[1:13 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Thanks for your concern. She died of lung cancer. She was a lifelong smoker, took care of a man and two boys who worked on cars all the time, and spent a lot of her professional life working in textile mills.
[1:14 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Vincent: sounds a bit like you're suggesting an update to the IAR coded.
[1:14 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: *code
[1:15 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: An iar is just an archive, it contains a folder for the inventory structure and data as well as folder containing the assets the uuid gatherer collected during the save process
[1:15 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Those are the actual assets and data from the asset server, by their uuids
[1:15 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: So if you have an inventory item telling you asset: uuid not found, you can go through and find that again
[1:15 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can untar it to see the content, yeah?
[1:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Yes
[1:16 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: HIro, Lost my mother to cancer. Doing some projects related to retro computing and having two cats for company has been of some help with my mental state.
[1:16 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Gather IARs from anyone you can, extract the assets folder and then crawl the database to see what's broken, replace where needed
[1:16 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Yeah Gavin but I have never understood how (or why) they unloaded a database into a tarball.
[1:16 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: just curious, how many users in OSG?
[1:17 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: roughly
[1:17 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: great question. a count(*) against the users table would probably cause issues
[1:17 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: ...for days.
[1:17 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: until it completed.
[1:18 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: should take a minute
[1:18 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: problem being, active vs inactive.
[1:18 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Total Users : 161654
[1:18 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Says on their website
[1:18 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: There might be some past stats re: OSG in the Hypergrid Business website.
[1:18 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: https://www.osgrid.org/infos_grid_result.php
[1:18 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: only asked bc,thats a lot of IARs to go through
[1:18 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: ahh. I wonder how accurate either of those are. Sounds pretty small.
[1:19 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Not everyone will care to make an IAR. Some large fraction of users havent logged in in years and never will.
[1:19 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: You won't get IARs from all users unless they were grid made, not many back that stuff up regularly
[1:19 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: The bigger question for a grid is how many users are active.
[1:19 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: only region owners can make iars
[1:19 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Some will simply lose everything. I'm one of those. I'll be better off for it.
[1:20 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: 4800 roughly, but half of that's likely the same person
[1:20 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: lol
[1:20 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I want to say the last time we did this, we set up a region where users could make IARs
[1:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well 2 late now.. that damage is done
[1:20 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I have OAR files dating back to when OAR files were first possible.
[1:20 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: well RL calls
[1:21 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Ubit, thanks for your input and assistance.
[1:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: again oars are region owners thing
[1:21 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Good seeing you again.
[1:21 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Ubit. See you again next week.
[1:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: osgrid has users that are not region owners
[1:21 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Any last minute items for today before I wrap up this gathering?
[1:21 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Right, I'm being selfishly self-centered atm
[1:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: so no iars for those
[1:21 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: If Dan wants to go nuclear and clear inventory out completely then people will lose a lot, not sure why that would be necessary
[1:21 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: in fact iars are so slow that most just dont have oen
[1:21 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: OpenSim is database driven, so whatever is broke in there, some SQL can fix
[1:21 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: my point is, a lot of my stuff is out on the regions contained in those oars.
[1:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: ok cya here or there :)
[1:22 PM PT]  Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: It's one way of cleaning the decades of gunk I guess, but even that can be done gracefully
[1:22 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: o/
[1:22 PM PT]  Ubit Umarov: anyways nice to see you again hiro :)
[1:22 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: same same :D
[1:22 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: I have some items in my inventory that I created and could reupload. The rest is of little importance if it was to be lost.
[1:22 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Great to see you, Hiro
[1:22 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: Thanks Lyr
[1:23 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: good to see you too
[1:23 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Come back and let us know how it is going and what you need
[1:23 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: It has been a long time since I've seen your name Hiro. Good to see you.
[1:23 PM PT]  Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I'll have to go. Take care everyone
[1:23 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing more for today I will call this meeting to a close.
[1:23 PM PT]  Hiro Protagonist: I'm gonna be a thorn in y'all's side again for at least a little while longer LOL
[1:23 PM PT]  Andrew Hellershanks: Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.
[1:23 PM PT]  Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: tc Gavin
[1:23 PM PT]  Lyr.Lobo @cc.opensimulator.org:8002 chuckles
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